A very interesting food discussion

I decided to call my food plan in to a long-time OA member and was not prepared for her response!

The plan:
B - bacon/egg/cheese wrap (dunkin donuts)
S - atkins peanut butter cookie (SF)
L - 1/2 turkey salad hoagie wrap, 2 tbs potato salad
S - pineapple in splenda
D - tuna salad over lettuce, carrot sticks
S - SF ice cream

Give it a minute and think maybe you will see what she did.  She asked me to call her to discuss it and she pointed out that my snacks were cooke and ice cream, and my breakfast was "fast food" - ish.

And she says, "You say you're a compulsive overeater, right?"  And I agree that I am.  "And you've had surgery because of your overeating, right?"  Yup again.  "And yet you choose cookies and ice cream for snacks still."  Yeah, but they are sugar free!!!  "Okay, and you're an alcoholic, right?"  Yes.  "And would you drink Near Beer?"  No, I would not, because I believe it is unnecessary and dangerous to my sobriety.  Uh-oh, I see where this is going.  But, hey, I wouldn't tell somebody else THEY couldn't drink it if it wasn't a problem for them.  Of course, she hasn't told me what to do. 

She "suggested" taking out the SF snacks and replacing them with fruit and/or veggies.  Wow.  I'm still processing through this.  I do not want to give up what I love -- sweets.  I didn't think I had to because of the sugar free options.  But what she says has the ring of truth to it. 

I know it is a personal decision that I will have to make one day at a time.  Just putting it out there for feedback from my good friends who know me and know the struggles of compulsive eating.

I see getting rid of the SF things in my future because they are not nurtitous and they trigger cravings. She makes a good point

wow this is a complex question/answer.  As I think of it there are maybe three tenets to OA.  Eating bad stuff, eating too much and eating to deal with emotions.  Im not sure that eating SF stuff falls in to any of those but I guess it could as well.  I agree with the comparison she made to drinking near beer, but im not sure that eating SF equates to that.  I guess you would have to examine the reason behind eating the SF things.   What benefit are you getting?  Why do it?  Do you have to do it or is it just another food choice?  If you tell yourself that you dont "have to" do it then whats the problem with eating an apple instead?  Very interesting.  There is also the issue that SF does not mean calorie free and are the SF items putting you over your calorie goals?  Are the SF a replacement for the real thing or is it just a "little treat"?  My initial response would be if the calories are not a problem and the SF things dont push you closer to breaking the rules and eating the real thing then it should be ok to have them.  i am biased though and want to enjoy the SF things as well so I really dont know what the right answer is.....if there is one.  I guess it is an individual thing for each of us (like you said).  Are we playing into the compulsive aspect because we feel we have too have the SF stuff? 

I wish I had a better answer but I dont think there is one.  Oh yeah, there is also the old arguement that the SF stuff "tricks" our body into thinking we are eating the real thing and the whol glycemic index issues that are bodies do with insulin production....  Now im confused too.  HAHAHA.

Poop!

Swede

Thought provoking question/answer for sure. I am guilty of the sugar free treats. So let me go this way ...Are you hitting protien goals? Are you getting fluids in? What about no denying your sweet tooth but maybe make it one snack aday or every other day?

Just thoughts....

Jill,

I have a roommate that has over 3 years of abstience in OA, he also celebrated 22 years of sobriety and he started his OA journey around the same time as I had my surgery, he has taken off over 100 lbs and I see the way he eats first hand and it is good, healthy food and not too shabby in amounts either and he does little real physical work and has maintained his loss.  When I spoke to him recently about my feelings of disgust in my regain, he pointed out several things to me and gave me a booklet on "sugar free" substitutes that was quite eye opening and then talked to me about the phenomen of craving brought about by such things.  I recently started doing some things differently and I can see the validity of what he told me and also what was pointed out by you.  I am not willing to go to OA, as I just don't have time for anymore A's (lol), however, I am willing to do things differently if they will help me.  So I still do some sugar free things, but I am eating much more fruit and vegetables these days, as well as cutting the refined carbs once again, as they convert to sugar and create the same effect as sugary foods, I avoid most fast foods and you are doing great, lots of willingness to change is what I am hearing. . . 

Hugs, Laureen

Jill,

I had a very similar conversation with one of my friends who also had WLS. We both agreed that just because we had WLS doesn't mean that we have to TOTALLY give up the things that we like to eat. Do we eat it everyday? Probably not! But it is really unreasonable to live without these things. From my own experience, denying me of those things make me want it MORE!! I have SF treats once in awhile, not everyday (at least I try to)! We are not perfect, and remember the surgery fixed our stomachs not our heads!! How many years of bad habits are we trying to right??  It won't happen overnight.

How about instead of the cookie, have a protein bar? Or instead of the ice cream, have some string cheese? Both of these have something we do need EVERYDAY! PROTEIN!!!!!

Don't beat yourself up over this! Your friend does have a point, but if she is not an addictive personality she really has NO idea!!!

((HUGS))
Beth

I don't chime in a whole lot anymore but I am very proud of the way you've been working so hard and wanted to say so.

I do totally understand where your friend is coming from.   Is the need for the cookies and ice cream a need to be "normal" or to "be comforted" or is it really to put something sweet in your mouth?  If it's one of the first two then you need to change it; you are eating it for the wrong reasons.  If it's the last then you will be satisfied with a few strawberries dipped in Walden's SF chocolate or a cup of Dannon Lite n Fit frozen in the freezer; the sweet should be satisfied by whole foods or foods within your "ok" list.   Keeping that sweet tooth alive is what leads to falling off the wagon eventually for addicts (not for everyone, but then not all of us WLSers are addicts; it's the mindset toward food that sets us apart).     You could change that up to fruit M-W-F, cookies or ice cream T-Th-Sat and abstain Sunday and see if it messes with your head just taking it away that little bit.....if it does, you've got your answer.

For a good while, I really had to steer clear of proein bars because they mimicked (sp?) candy bars so much and I could scarf them down the same way I used to eat candy on the sly. Now I stick with the pure protein bars for those "in a pinch" moments specifically because they do NOT taste as good as some of the other bars. (And higher in protein and lower in sugar than most to boot.)

I can't tolerate much in the way of SF baked goods due to the sugar alcohols, and it's a d*** good thing! Husband's bakery (wholesale) is developing a LOT of new SF items....so of course I got some samples a couple of weeks ago. And I found myself "sneak eating" those items....even though I KNEW the consequences and SUFFERED the consequences because they do contain sugar alcohols. I ate too much anyway. Old habit lurking...

I do eat SF ice cream. I have an ice cream maker and make protein ice cream and frozen yogurt (now that spring is here it will be a regular item). I have learned that I do need to measure my portions of the SF ice cream or...once again....I will overeat it the same way I used to be able to overeat on regular ice cream. Old habit lurking....

The pattern I have to watch is (you guessed it) overeating in general. Of course, I can't overeat to the extent that I did pre op....BUT....I can find myself eating to the point of discomfort from time to time. Earlier this week I overate on salad and chicken.  (Off topic...sorry....)

Without a doubt, we are probably better off without the SF items in our diets. The sweetners are artificial and  I prefer to eat mostly  "fresh" "real" food. But I do enjoy a treat from time to time, and for me it is the SF ice cream that fills the bill. Maybe one day I'll set it aside entirely, but for now, that's the rock I'm standing on.

I really enjoy your thoughtful posts, too. Great contributions to the board!

Jill,

As always, you are thoughtful and courageous in sharing the details of your journey with us.  Thank you. 

I find myself too easily falling into the old, addict trick of rationalizing poor choices, such as telling myself that it's ok to eat dessert every night because it's sugar free.  Huh? 

it's not about the specific food, it's about how we lie to ourselves about it.  Rationalization is the downfall of the addict.  Telling ourselves that it's ok because it's sugar free lets our addict-brain dictate our actions.  It lets us ignore what we KNOW (in our rational brain) to be true:  that we aren't eating that because we're hungry or our body needs that particular set of nutrients, we're eating it for a different reason (numbing, craving, compulsing, etc.).  

So-called "normal" people may eat dessert a couple of times a week.  (not twice in one day)  They may snack on a high-fat food when they are at a ballgame or fair, but don't eat it every day.  "We" on the other hand may be triggered by those foods to engage in a full-out binge.  Even mock-sweets, eaten in the wrong frame of mind, can trigger that in us.

I find that when I let myself start to equate sugar-free with healthy, I have real problems.  Sugar free just means that the item doesn't contain refined sugar.  it doesn't mean that it's low fat, low calorie, has protein, or has any redeeming qualities at all.    

Does that mean that I abstain from sugar free treats?  no.  unfortunately, I don't yet have the level of discipline to do that, even though I know I "should" do that.  But I am more wary of them than I used to be and much more respectful of their power to derail me.  I would love to get more control over them.

I hope some of these musings help. 

Karen

Very very thought provoking - as is all the responses.

I must admit I did notice the sf ice cream and cookies on the menu and kinda question  it, especially given your recent posts and your journey.  I hadn't, though, thought of the DD breakfast - as of late my go to quick meal is their turkey sausage and eggwhite flat bread w/ half of the bread.

It's very interesting to really go back and look.  I commend your sponsor for calling that to your attention, and more importantly, for you to accept those comments and truly reflect on them instead of immediately becoming defensive and ignoring them.  Strong work!

Thank you for the thoughts!!